20-40 Limit Poker Strategy
- 20-40 Limit Poker Strategy Real Money
- 20-40 Limit Poker Strategy Rules
- 20-40 Limit Poker Strategy Games
- 20-40 Limit Poker Strategy Blackjack
Pot limit and no limit Hold'em. If you are playing pot limit or no limit poker, the safe recommended size of your bankroll is 20 times the full buy-in of where you want to play. This means that if you want to have the best chance of making money at a $1/$2 game where the maximum buy-in is $200, you should have a bankroll of at least $4000. Players who primarily understand No-Limit online poker may completely miss out on the concept of how important a single big bet is in Limit poker. In a game of No-Limit, playing 200+ big blinds deep, a single big bet is relatively insignificant to the total amount of chips at risk to be gained or lost. No-Limit is a game of outplaying your.
I travel a lot, visiting poker rooms all around the world — especially in the United States.
When I meet someone else who plays poker, one of the first things I want to know is where he plays and what his local card room is like. Invariably, our conversation follows a predictable arc — something like this:
Me: 'So, you're from Miami. Where do you like to play?'
Him: 'Oh, I play all over, but my favorite room is definitely the Hard Rock up in Hollywood.'
Me: 'Really, that's a great room. I've played there myself. Is there still a lot of action there?'
Him: 'Yep. They get a bunch of $2/$5 games. That's what I play.'
Me: 'I see. Are they raking the pots or taking a time charge?'
Him: 'I think they're raking. I don't remember paying any charge.'
Me: 'Raking, huh. Do you know what they take out of the pot?'
Him: 'I don't pay much attention. I think 10 percent or something like that.'
Me: 'Yes, it's probably 10 percent. But they usually have a maximum, like 10 percent up to $5. Do you remember what the maximum was?'
Him: 'I really couldn't tell you. I honestly didn't notice. It only came out when I won. And I was so happy to have won that I didn't pay attention.'
I must have had a hundred conversations that have gone just like that. They knew the house took something out of the pot, but they really paid no attention regarding how much.
Usually while I'm interrogating the poor soul, someone else overhears us. They sometimes weigh in with their thoughts about the rake. That conversation will often go like this:
Me: 'Well, I hope they're not charging $5. It does seem like a lot of rooms are going in that direction — or even more. Frankly, I'd rather pay a half-hour seat charge than pay a rake.'
Her: 'What, like that $5 every 30 minutes that they used to charge here before they started raking?'
Me: 'Yeah, that's better than paying 10 percent up to $5 every hand.'
Her: 'No way. I'd much rather have the pot raked. That way, only the winners pay. And if I don't win, I don't pay anything. What I really hated was when I wouldn't win one pot for a whole hour and I still had to pony up $5 a half.'
Him: 'I don't know. I never paid attention to it. I figure it's just some small tax, and it doesn't really matter'.
Other players: 'Shut up, will you!'
And so it goes.
What's clear to me is that most players need to understand how a card room makes its money. It may well be the difference between a player winning or losing, as I'll show you.
First, a little thought experiment.
Imagine you and nine other poker players get together regularly at each other's houses for a floating poker game. You play $1/$2 no-limit. You each usually bring around $200 with which to play, and everyone brings and shares beer and munchies. It's as much a fun social experience as it is a serious poker game. You've been doing it for a few years and you love it.
Then a casino with a poker room opens nearby. After hearing about how great it is, one of your buddies proposes that you all go over and play poker there one Saturday night. So instead of meeting for your weekly home game that week, you all meet up and travel to the new casino. You each bring a stake of $200 for your poker night out.
You get to the casino, find your way to the poker room, and ask for a table. There is no list, but there are just a couple of seats available. You speak to the poker room manager, explain that there are 10 of you who decided to play at the casino for a change, and would like to all play together on a table if possible. Eager for your business, the manager smiles, and then gets a dealer to open up an entire table for the 10 of you. You will have your own private game — with beverage and food service, a professional dealer, ritzy casino chips — the whole casino experience!
The casino doesn't do all of this for free, of course. But they'll give you the same rate as they charge everyone who plays in their poker room. As it turns out, they take a rake — taking 10 percent. That means taking $1 out of the pot when it hits $10, and then another for every additional $10 up to a maximum of $5 when the pot is $50 or larger. They also take $1 out for the bad beat jackpot (quad eights beaten by a better hand) that now stands at $350,000.
Your crew starts to play in the casino poker room at 2 p.m. on a Saturday afternoon. You've decided to get your money's worth for the trip and play 12 full hours of $1/$2 no-limit at your private casino table. Assuming that...
- you have good dealers who can consistently deal out 15 hands each 30-minute round;
- the average pot is $40;
- you each generously tip $1 per pot to the dealer; and
- you're all about equal in ability and luck is also evenly spread around for the session.
How much of your $200 stake will you walk away with when you go home at 2 a.m.?
The answer is that in this theoretical game at this theoretical casino, you will all leave cold dead broke! In fact, you went broke some time before your expected departure time of 2 a.m.
Here's the math. It's pretty simple — and sobering.
There was an average of $4 rake paid per hand (some pots were small and had a lower rake, most were $50 or more and took the full $5). At 30 hands an hour (15 hands for each 30-minute dealer round), that adds up to $120 worth of rake collected. The bad beat drop takes out another $1 a hand, for $30 an hour. And then, at $1 a hand, the tips account for another $30 an hour.
That means $180 is coming off your table every hour. You each brought $200 — $2,000 total among the 10 of you. By the end of 10 hours you've collectively given up $1,800, leaving just $20 each with which to play. After the 11th hour you're only left with $20 for the entire table — just two bucks each! And that goes down the chute well before the final hour is gone.
So by the end of hour number 12 there is no more money left for any of you. It has been entirely raked away — all $2,000 of it!
This is an extreme example, of course. No new blood comes into the game to infuse it with more money. Some dealers don't get out that many hands per hour. And you may play more tightly than normal. But you get the idea, yes? A rake can have an absolutely crushing impact on your bottom line.
Which makes it all the more interesting to me how seldom most players seem to think about the rake. In fact, they're often their own worst enemies when it comes to the rake. Players even ask for it! Maybe you're shaking your head. But they do!
I remember well when my home casino charged a $5 per half-hour fee to play $1/$2 no-limit — that is, no rake, just that time charge. The players demanded that the house rake the game instead. And the casino willingly complied. To this day, some players still insist that this move was in their interest, while most others have no opinion on the subject whatsoever.
In reality, all but the nittiest players almost surely cost themselves a ton of money with the rake instead of the time charge. Just do the math. The raked game described above has an average cost of around $12 an hour per player in rake ($4 x 30 hands an hour = $120 total, divided among 10 players). A $5 per 30-minute time charge would cost each player $10 an hour — i.e., the rake takes out $2 more per player per hour. (Tips and the bad beat jackpot drop would be the same for each.)
Not surprisingly, most poker rooms around the world charge a rake for the lowest stakes games where the players are the least sophisticated or rake sensitive. It is generally only as you reach games as big as $5/$10 no-limit or $30/$60 limit that the house may charge time.
Sadly, it seems that poker rooms — i.e., live 'brick-and-mortar' rooms — tend to increase the rake over time. Back in the 1990s and before, it was not uncommon to see rooms that raked no more than 5 percent up to a maximum of $3. Some even would charge time for the low stakes games, and as little as $2 or $3 a half-hour.
Today, with the exception of some rooms in Washington and New Mexico, it is highly unusual — rare indeed — to see any games raked at less than 10 percent up to a maximum of $4. Rooms that have opened in the last 10 years, outside of highly competitive areas, almost surely will charge 10 percent with a maximum of $5 or even $6.
On top of that, nearly every room that has a bad beat, high hand, or other promotional jackpot makes the player pay for it with an additional rake or 'drop.' What's amusing is that those rooms then make a huge deal over how big those jackpots and promotions are — as if the house were paying for them! Some even have the moxie of tacking on an additional $2 per hand for promotions — as if $5 + $1 weren't enough.
As you can see, these rakes can have a terrible impact on the game, with all players' bankrolls eventually getting sucked into the giant black hole of a rake. Of course, there's another side to this. It costs money to pay dealers (though most of their income comes from tips), floorpersons, brushes, managers, and electricity bills, not to mention provide complimentary beverages, food, and the like. Even so, it only hurts players to be oblivious and/or silent to the costs of playing.
One final note — this column has chiefly addressed live games in casinos and poker rooms in the United States. But the truth is that for players in other parts of the poker playing world, the U.S. can appear to be an oasis of rake reasonableness in an international sea of rake insanity. In some places, most notably Australia, players pay a rake on top of an hourly time charge. In other places outside of the United States rakes can be as high as $40 per hand.
It's no wonder that playing online poker can be more appealing for some. There rakes tend to be much lower, as little as 5 percent up to $3, reflecting perhaps the much lower overhead of an online poker room. But even they are subject to inflation if players don't make known their displeasure at increased rakes.
Ashley Adams has been playing poker for 50 years and writing about it since 2000. He is the author of hundreds of articles and two books, Winning 7-Card Stud (Kensington 2003) and Winning No-Limit Hold'em (Lighthouse 2012). He is also the host of poker radio show House of Cards. See www.houseofcardsradio.com for broadcast times, stations, and podcasts.
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Many players complain bitterly that they can’t beat $2-$4, $3-$6, and $4-$8 fixed limit games. They insist that they play well, but lose because:
“There are too many idiots.”
“They don’t respect my raises.”
“They chase with weak draws.”
“My good hands don’t hold up.”
“I can’t push anybody off a hand.”
Some frustrated players have switched to no-limit. One joined our low-limit game and grumbled constantly about “this stupid game.” His silliest complaint was, “When I played here, I flopped top set and couldn’t push an idiot off a backdoor-flush draw. In no-limit I’d shove all in.”
Because I don’t teach while playing, I said nothing, but would tell a coaching client, “You don’t want him to fold. You’re a huge favorite. Why settle for a small pot?”
Most clients would agree, but a few would say (or think), “You may be right, but bad beats are so frustrating.” Of course they are, but poker isn’t about avoiding frustration; it’s about winning money. You should risk frustration to increase your profits.
With top set against almost any hand you have — by far — the best of it, and you should make the most of it. When someone with only a backdoor-flush draw calls, he’s giving you most of his bet. You want him to make stupid calls, even though you’ll occasionally lose.
A few clients might say, “That’s OK if you’re heads up, but in my games four, five, or more people often chase me. Somebody usually draws out.”
That argument sounds reasonable, but it’s wrong. With bigger fields there’s a higher probability that someone will draw out, but you still want them to call with negative expected value (EV) draws. With top set and no obvious flush or straight draws, virtually every hand is a huge underdog.
A friend objected, “But if the pot is large, it’s often plus EV to call.”
Of course, it is, but you want them to make negative EV calls. Unless the pot is so large that they’re getting profitable odds, you want them to call.
Total Equity Is Always Exactly 100 Percent
If your equity is 60 percent with five opponents, their average equity is only 8 percent each. If and only if their chances of winning are worse than the price they’re getting, their calls increase your EV.
Your equity percentage goes down as the number of chasers goes up, but the pot often increases faster than your percentage goes down. Therefore, if more people chase and your hand is strong enough, your EV often increases. You win fewer pots, but they’re much bigger, which more than offsets the lost pots.
The Fundamental Theorem of Poker
Let’s consider one part of it: “Every time opponents play their hands differently from the way they would have played if they could see all your cards, you gain.” (The Theory of Poker). After seeing your top set, any sane opponent would fold because the odds against him are so bad.
A wise guy might reply, “But some opponents are crazy. They’d call anyway.” I’d laugh and say, “Good. If they want to give you their money, take it.”
Opponents’ Mistakes Increase Your Profits
Players complain bitterly about opponents’ stupidity because they don’t understand that – if everyone played properly – the rake and other costs would defeat everybody. Only the house would win.
They also don’t realize that “every cent of your long term profit playing poker comes from exploiting your opponents’ errors and predictable tendencies.” (Miller, Sklansky, and Malmuth (Small Stakes Hold’em) They emphasized this point by saying, “If you do not win in the long term, it is not because your opponents are making too many mistakes; it is because you are.” (p. 18)
When I say that, some people go ballistic. “My mistakes? I played my hand perfectly, but this idiot…” If I reply that one, two or ten bad beat stories don’t prove they don’t make serious mistakes, they insist that they play just the way the books recommend, then angrily demand, “What mistakes do I make?”
The answer is simple: Virtually all low-limit players don’t give enough weight to costs. In fact, most of them don’t seriously think about costs, even though the rake, jackpot drop, and tokes cost so much that it’s extremely difficult to beat many low-limit games.
Let’s digress briefly. Someone once told me, “My friend is a terrible craps player. He makes stupid bets.”
I asked, “Didn’t you say you’ve lost heavily at craps?”
“Yes, but I’ve had some great nights. My friend loses much more than me because I know how to play.”
20-40 Limit Poker Strategy Real Money
I could hardly keep from laughing. He insisted he’s good even though he loses. He must lose because craps is unbeatable. The same principle applies whenever skill can’t overcome costs. Since costs have such dramatic effects upon their results, why don’t most serious low-limit players carefully analyze them?
Three reasons: First, some play for fun and don’t care about costs. Second, they don’t understand how important costs are. They think, “What’s another dollar or two?” They’re making a huge mistake. That dollar or two comes out of every pot they win, which dramatically affects their edge, and edge “is the most important concept in poker… small differences in edge add up dramatically over time… you must emphasize edge, including the small edges, in all your poker decisions.” (Roy Cooke, “Understanding Edge In Poker, Part II,” Card Player, 1/22/14)
Third, analyzing and adjusting to costs is very hard work. The books don’t help because costs vary too much between rooms.
Factoring costs into your decisions fits right into the experts’ standard rule: The correct decision depends upon the situation, but we should add: including your costs. Since low-limit games’ costs are so high, many decisions which are correct without considering the costs are really serious mistakes. Therefore, you should carefully analyze your costs’ effects when you:
20-40 Limit Poker Strategy Rules
• Choose a game. You must be much better than your opponents to cover the huge costs.
• Choose a seat. Choose seats with the biggest edge.
• Decide whether to quit or stay. Frequently reevaluate your edge: If the game or your play has changed, do you have a large enough edge to beat this game with these players and costs now?
• Decide whether to fold, check, call, bet, or raise. Factor your costs into every decision. A decision that’s plus EV in low cost games is often minus EV in high cost games.
In other words, constantly ask, “Do I have a large enough edge to cover my costs?” Unless you’re playing just for fun, if the answer is, “No,” don’t do it.
20-40 Limit Poker Strategy Games
Future articles will describe my crude, but fairly effective, methods. If you don’t properly evaluate and adjust to all your costs, you probably can’t beat most low-limit games. ♠
20-40 Limit Poker Strategy Blackjack
“Dr. Al” (alan_schoonmaker@yahoo.com) coaches only on psychology issues. For information about seminars and webinars, go to propokerseminars.com. He is David Sklansky’s co-author of DUCY? and the sole author of four poker psychology books.